Poker Forums

Good day folks...im new to the forum and hope to get positive feedback.
I have played approx 500 Sng's and have made approx $50...i play $1 double or nothing or play the $1 45 man turbos...my bankroll is $270...i feel that i should maybe move up to the $3 or even $5 turbos but just dont have the balls to do it....should i or just stick with what im doing now..trying to build my bankroll and then taking a shot at the $3 or $5 .
Comments welcome
Regards

Welcome to the forum, no 4! Glad to see you here on PSF. I am not an expert, but there are several forum members who post here that are. Let me tell you what I've learned from them and from this forum.

I don't spend more than 2% of my bankroll on any given tournament. For $270, that would put you at a $5.40 level. Make an arbitrary goal with your bankroll and when you get there, earmark $xx.xx for a shot or two at the next level up. If you do well at the higher level, stay there. If you get shot down, then move back to your previous level.

Example: You're bankrolled at $270. Make your win goal 10%, or about $27. Call it $30 to keep it simple. When you hit $300, take your earmarked 10%, and move it up to play in two $15 Sng's tourneys, or three $10 SnG's. If you hit, you've just built your bankroll. If you miss, then it's back to the $5 game.

I did this in my cash ring games (micro stakes) and moved from the $0.05-0.10 games to the $0.10-0.25 game. I did well at this higher level and built my BR up a bit. Then I moved up to the $0.25-0.50 game, which, for the record, ate my lunch! Lost my previous win goal amount and then some. Now, I have dropped back to the limits I've been reasonably successful at and am building up my bankroll again. I started with a bankroll of $250 and saw it drop to $150, after losing two $50 buy-ins. (Yes, Ed...I did pick up my stake and moved to different tables ) Now, after dropping my game back to the $0.10.0.25 game, I'm back to $180 and climbing. When I get back to $250, I'll give it another shot.

As far as not having the cajones to move up, I will tell you what I tell my kids:



FEEL THE FEAR, ACCEPT IT, AND DO IT ANYWAY!!!

__________________
ertrauma


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As my father always said, "Son, choose your sword wisely for some day you may find you must fall on it".

ertrauma,
I'm sorry, but this is some very poor advice in my opinion. There's certianly nothing wrong with taking shots at higher levels once in a while, but to suggest playing $15 or even $10 SnG's when he's only played $1 SnG's is a recipe for failure.

Here's what I think for what it's worth...
You have been playing the $1 SnG's which has a very high % of rake (up to 20% depending on how many participants). You have $270 which is a nice healthy bankroll for the $3.40 9, 18, or 45-Man SnG's (Whichever you feel comfortable in). The Rake isn't nearly as bad as the $1's and if you lose 1/2 your bankroll (which is unlikely) you can always go back down to where you started.

I'm new to this forum but have been playing $5 and $6 SnG's for a few months now at a slight profit. So I'm no expert, but have managed to make a reasonable profit over a couple thousand games without ever busting.

If you want, send me a PM and I'd be glad to go over some of your Hand Histories and show yuo some leaks in your game. ;)

Ertrauma, I hope that you don't mind me saying this, but your bankroll management strategy for cash games is kind of reckless. I'm playing professionally and have a few 5-6 buyin downswings every week! Every once in awhile I'll have an even bigger one. There's nothing you can do about this kind of variance, just keep playing your A game and the results show in the long run. A standard rule of thumb is to use the 20 buyin rule. If I were you, I'd grind .05/.10 until reaching $500, and try moving up to .10/.25.

The higher up you go, the touger and more aggressive the games will get, so you might require a larger bankroll accomodate the larger swings.

Risking a larger percentage of your bankroll is perfectly acceptable, imo, as long as you're flexible and dont tilt off ur remaining roll.

If you're playing well and are confident in your game, jump up in stakes. Grinding out NL25 until you get a roll of 500 dollars seems so incredibly boring. I say challenge yourself. If you lose, big deal. Drop down for a while and try it again when losing 100 bucks won't empty your account. If you're not dependent on the money for rent, it doesn't matter if you lose it or not. Challenge yourself and have fun.

Each month I play until i get 1500-2k in my account, then cash out leaving 180-220 behind. I play 10, 16, and 32 dollar 9 and 10-seat SnGs as well as 12 and 36 dollar 6-seaters. Even at the beginning of the new month w/ my roll only around 200, i'm still playing my top-end tables if the seat selection allows. I don't care if its 20% or 2% of my bankroll because I know i can beat them. Sure variance happens and in that case, after i've lost a couple 30 dollar games and i'm down to under 100 bucks, will i play 10 and 12 dollar games exclusively. I haven't made a deposit in probably 3 yrs.

As long as you are confident you can win and aren't dumb enough to play your highest buy in games NO MATTER WHAT, its not a big deal. Just have discipline and be flexibile in your buy in amounts when you're running bad.

I think this is good advice for the most part. Like my above post, i find nothing wrong w/ bouncing around table stakes. I really like your stop loss goals, as that displays excellent planning and forsight. My only caution is thinking that the level of difficulty b/n games is linear because it certainly is not. There is a noticable difference b/n .10/.25 and .25/.50 compared to the insignificant jump b/n .05/.10 and .10/.25. Since the difficulty is exponential, I would suggest staying at NL25 for a bit longer before jumping headlong into the NL50, even if you have a good stop loss scenario in place. (As compared to the time i'd spend playing NL25 after jumping from .05/.10)

Staying on the penny tables until you build this giant 500 dollar bankroll will do 2 things:

A) It will take freaking forever, even if you're crushing them.
B) You will never get any better if you never play better players. Even if you're making money (albeit at a snail's pace on the penny tables) you're still never making any real gains in your play b/c you're not facing better competition.

Good players become great players by playing better players.

If these statements are true. I'd really like to hook up and maybe share some SnG Hand Histories. I have to be honest, I don't believe that you make this much money every month and never bust after taking out so much money; but I'm not calling you a liar as I'm sure it's possible.

Please send me a Private Message. I'd like to talk to you about helping each other.

This is really not sound advice. Perhaps, YOU are okay with using a reckless bankroll management strategy, but clearly, you have not experienced what variance truly is yet . At 25NL $125 swings are relatively common place. It's common knowledge over the interwebs that the Variance in SNG's is greater than it is in Cash games simply because you have less edge for most of the tournament sine everybody is playing shortstacked and often have to win a couple of coinflips to get into the money. In cash games you can keep yourself topped up, and out maneuver your opponents preflop, on the flop, and oh yes on the turn and river.

Playing 25NL with an 8 buyin bankroll is going to make it difficult for MOST people to play their A game, because they drop a buyin or 2 and then start feeling stressed about losing more of their roll rather than focusing on making the right plays.

What happens when your 8 buy-in bankroll gets spanked with a 4 buy-in downswing and you're playing 4 tables? Now you can no longer play at this limit or you have to close tables, or you cannot replenish your stack because your entire bankroll is on the table...

Mass tabling isn't for everybody, but pretty much anybody can handle 4 tables with the use of a HUD and some practice at it.

Grinding to $500 from $200 at 25NL is reckless yet you call it boring? Where does it become not boring? Not only does your advice push those who would take it into playing with an inadequate bankroll, but can also cause them to move up to a level where they're completely incompetent.

Just as downswings can happen to those who are making all the right plays, upswings can happen to those who make all the wrong plays. Grinding .05/.10 for a few thousand hands and making $70 or so could simply be the result of good fortune, when you were never actually playing well enough to be a long term winner, and then you move up to 25NL, the luck runs out, you get spanked, and there goes half of your bankroll? You move back down to .05/.10 and oh look you're still not good enough there so you get spanked again and now you right back to a $50 penny stakes bankroll.

Make it easier on yourself and move when your bankroll and your skills allow. If you use the 20 buy-in rule, and are beating your current limit for 5bb/100 or more, then you're well on your way to becoming a solid player then can take the occasional slap in the face from lady variance.

all of the above makes sense, but you have to define your own priorities and goals.

If you don't want to deposit again follow Jedi's advice. If it is more of a hobby take some shots.. as long as the consequences of losing don't affect your decisions.

FWIW. the varience on sng's killed me. I've gone from playing $10/$20 sngs to 20nl cash. I've made much more profit in last 2 months had much better swings and enjoying ' the grind' a lot more. looking forward to reaching the next level is the best motivation I have had in years