All great posts and one of our better threads so far from an advanced learning perspective.

Admittedly, I tend to play more by gut and instinct than by pure math decisions. I'm hoping I may pickup a thing or two out of this discussion to improve my tournament play.

Don't get me wrong, I do know the math, and do a lot of rough calculations in my head, when making decisions, but also heavily factor in opponents style, what gear he is in, what they are capable of, betting variations, position, Chips involved (pot odds, implied odds)etc.

I can make some pretty big laydowns preflop in the right situation, but I'm also capable of making some marginal calls based on the situation and multiple factors.

Jason

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I'm Not Lucky, I Have Good Karma !

Kickboy : 17 bb restealing is a shove allin. U cant raise 9BB with that stack cause a shove from the villain put u commited and u have to call .

Mark :
"100 Resteals:

20 Times - Villan Folds, +4.5BBs
80 Times - Villan Calls"

This is not the real life , at least in medium levels .
Pay attention that villan can fold and still have a healthy 14bb .

I think we have to review the range before to the math , lets say :

Villan is raising pretty wide Ax , Kx, Q9+ , 22+ and SC , Its about 50% of the hands. ( that makes a 19/12 player ) .
Now I think is worth a call by him with : 66+ , A9+ , KT+ . This is 14%

This is at least my own experience when I see their cards .
Someone have a different point of view ? It would be a good idea to make the ranges the more narrow possible.

I disagree I feel there is no need for panic. 17BB are a lot of blinds.

If the villain raises 3x the blinds u come back over the top for 10x the blinds he still has fold equity and your not forcing yourself to play a big pot with subpar holdings.

Leaving yourself with 7BB is still enough to play if the villain would come back over the top of you. The villain, if they are truly stealing will fold for 7x the BB. But this would leave you enough room to fold if you get played back at.

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Kickboyswoop

Hey MrTynKyn,

Sure - I was only using the 20 / 80 as an example of how I would approach this kind of problem from a 'numbers' perspective.

I think your numbers are fairly close - at the lower ($20 and under) levels we need to add 1% or 2% for a 'crazy call' with a suited connector or baby-ace... you just never know.

using 65 / 35 for the fold / call is probably better!

Hey Kickboy,

Also agree with you that there may be other / better ways to play the hand with 17bb stacks (especially if someone only plays a few SNGs at any one time).

However these kind of excerises are good for setting a baseline and increasing our understanding of the game / equity against certain ranges and 3 / 4-bet dynamics...

Also helpful for the multitablers (I know of at least 2 people here on the Poker Strategy Forum who play 12+ tables at a time... taking a flop can get tricky!)

Cheers, Mark

I do agree with you on that that there may be ways to play the hand where you do not have to think as much. I just prefer to play a game that allows me to opt out of hands if need be. I am also a player who prefers post flop play. I do have a habit when I believe a person is stealing to float a little bit.

I will call a preflop raise then check on the flop and check-raise the flop. This will take it down a little more often than you think.

I prefer this play a lot compared to the preflop all in mindless play.

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Kickboyswoop

I may go home tonight and try to set up like 10 sng and see what happens. The most I have played before is 6 (4 on a regular basis)

What kind of profit are you looking for to justify playing that many at a time to make it work. (Beside the high player Points)

And when you get eliminated from one, do you start another right away or wait until all 10 are done?

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Kickboyswoop

Personally I prefer sets and tiled... though the variations with continual play and cascaded tables can be configured to suit the individual.

The idea is to keep decisions as simple as possible and use superior 'push / fold' skills once the blinds get high... profit per table will drop from 15% to 8% (made up numbers for an example - but close enough) but since you have 10 tables instead of 2 your hourly rate skyrockets.... make sure you know ICM if trying this above the $20 on the larger sites- the 'grinders' will be pushing pretty much mathematically and you need to know their calling / shoving ranges even if you do not use ICM yourself.

this one might help:

Multi-Tabling Part #1 - How to Multi-table SNG Tournaments | Part #1

Cheers, Mark

I will practice tonight on the lower tables just in case i get crushed but it is worth a shot.

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Kickboyswoop

Mark: OK , lets make some math with your range
" using 65 / 35 for the fold / call is probably better!"

Kickboy: If you play more than 10 tables at lower level than 20$ , You will realize what im talking about. Pay attention to 9bb re-steal.

BTW I wonder what do u need to make this play
" I will call a preflop raise then check on the flop and check-raise the flop."
What reads on villans , what kind of flop , of course u have atc cards and miss the flop ( this is floating )