This is how bad i run when i am running bad!!!!

kickboy · June 9th, 2008, 04:27 PM

(I Limped because it was a amazingly wild room)

PokerStars Game #18029106896: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/06/09 - 18:19:13 (ET)
Table 'Oriola III' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: hansihamburg ($58.30 in chips)
Seat 2: VolkerRachow ($56.50 in chips)
Seat 3: King Cashill ($7.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Stickitinguy ($84.25 in chips)
Seat 6: kickboyswoop ($28.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Cid84 ($12.10 in chips)
Seat 9: ADZ122 ($50.50 in chips)
VolkerRachow: posts small blind $0.25
King Cashill: posts big blind $0.50
cicatrix: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kickboyswoop [Kh Ks]
Stickitinguy: folds
kickboyswoop: calls $0.50
Cid84: folds
ADZ122: raises $2.50 to $3
hansihamburg: folds
jwb92969 joins the table at seat #8
VolkerRachow: folds
King Cashill: folds
kickboyswoop: raises $25.55 to $28.55 and is all-in
ADZ122: calls $25.55
*** FLOP *** [6d 8s Td]
*** TURN *** [6d 8s Td] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [6d 8s Td Ac] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kickboyswoop: shows [Kh Ks] (a pair of Kings)
ADZ122: shows [Ah Kc] (a pair of Aces)
ADZ122 collected $55 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $57.85 | Rake $2.85
Board [6d 8s Td Ac 9h]
Seat 1: hansihamburg (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: VolkerRachow (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: King Cashill (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Stickitinguy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: kickboyswoop showed [Kh Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: Cid84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ADZ122 showed [Ah Kc] and won ($55) with a pair of Aces

PokerStars Game #18028977454: Tournament #91482886, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/06/09 - 18:14:03 (ET)
Table '91482886 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Kiz]v[et (2930 in chips)
Seat 2: sgermer (1395 in chips)
Seat 3: kickboyswoop (845 in chips)
Seat 4: dowork85 (3005 in chips)
Seat 6: spongebob111 (1475 in chips)
Seat 8: Tiago Pina (2510 in chips)
Seat 9: brandyballs (1340 in chips)
sgermer: posts small blind 25
kickboyswoop: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kickboyswoop [4h 5h]
dowork85: folds
spongebob111: folds
Tiago Pina: folds
brandyballs: folds
Kiz]v[et: folds
sgermer: raises 50 to 100
kickboyswoop: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [9h Kh Qh]
sgermer: checks
kickboyswoop: bets 745 and is all-in
sgermer: calls 745
*** TURN *** [9h Kh Qh] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [9h Kh Qh Kd] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sgermer: shows [9d Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Nines)
kickboyswoop: shows [4h 5h] (a flush, King high)
sgermer collected 1690 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1690 | Rake 0
Board [9h Kh Qh Kd Jh]
Seat 1: Kiz]v[et (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sgermer (small blind) showed [9d Kc] and won (1690) with a full house, Kings full of Nines
Seat 3: kickboyswoop (big blind) showed [4h 5h] and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 4: dowork85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: spongebob111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Tiago Pina folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: brandyballs folded before Flop (didn't bet)

GoodKarmaKid · June 9th, 2008, 05:46 PM

Hand 1

I'm never big fan of the limp re-raise to be honest. a lot of times you end up creating a big pot and once people are in the pot (regardless of how small their investment is) they tend to gamble more. In this particular case I think I know what you were thinking. The game was extremely loose and your were relatively certain that the pot was going to get raised, then you could re-raise. In this particular circumstance, probably not a bad play but I still prefer to open raise.

The one thing I don't really understand is why the huge all in raise preflop?? From $3 to $28??? Thats a huge overbet. You did get the guy to call all his chips when you had the best of it, but I think a better bet would have been to make it like $12 or $13, then push all in on most all flops depending on what you think the player has. For example if the flop comes AQx, you might be able to get away from the hand and save some money if you really believe the player has an ace, but most all other type of flops you just push, If they call with AK trying to spike their overcards, you still get the same money in the pot and if they beat you they beat you, thats poker. I mentioned it in another thread somewhere, but I always like to save some chips to bet on the flop, thus giving your opponent a second opportunity to fold(and yourself a second chance to win)

I'm interested in others thoughts on this type of play though.

Hand 2

Not much you can do here, just a bad beat. Don't see any issues with how you played the hand.

kickboy · June 9th, 2008, 05:57 PM

I do see where you are coming from with hand 1. My only thinking was once he called 12 preflop he would eithe rpush back preflop or call anything after flop.

GoodKarmaKid · June 9th, 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickboy

My only thinking was once he called 12 preflop he would eithe rpush back preflop or call anything after flop.

Ok, and if he repushes back how is that any different than calling your all in

It is going to depend on your opponent a lot but there are lots of people that will risk their entire stack preflop with AK or AQ, but some of those people will fold if they miss the flop. When they fold you win 100% of the time

.

Your scenario wasn't terrible because you held KK and had a couple of the AK's outs, but if you had JJ or QQ, you'd certainly want some chips left to bet the flop and give them the opportunity to fold. Which also brings up a secondary issue of betting sizes & patterns with the huge oversized all in preflop. In my opinion, if you keep the raises standard it's harder for opponents to put you on a range of hands, and like in this circumstance you also you leave yourself more chips to play with after the flop.

Just my two cents, not saying I"m right because No Limit isn't my main game.

Jason

kickboy · June 10th, 2008, 05:54 AM

Yea you may be right here. If i would have left some chips back I would have had some betting after the flop chips. Weird thing is I have been running very badly with a lot of bad beets latly so i think i made this play because of that. I swear in the past week i have had kings go against aces like 6 times.

PoWdA · June 10th, 2008, 07:12 AM

I commented on both of these HH's before reading other responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickboy

(I Limped because it was a amazingly wild room)

PokerStars Game #18029106896: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/06/09 - 18:19:13 (ET)
Table 'Oriola III' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: hansihamburg ($58.30 in chips)
Seat 2: VolkerRachow ($56.50 in chips)
Seat 3: King Cashill ($7.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Stickitinguy ($84.25 in chips)
Seat 6: kickboyswoop ($28.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Cid84 ($12.10 in chips)
Seat 9: ADZ122 ($50.50 in chips)
VolkerRachow: posts small blind $0.25
King Cashill: posts big blind $0.50
cicatrix: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kickboyswoop [Kh Ks]
Stickitinguy: folds
kickboyswoop: calls $0.50
I raise here just about 100% of the time, just a standard raise to $1.50. The EP limp just looks so suspiscious at this level.
Cid84: folds
ADZ122: raises $2.50 to $3
This is great but why I hate the limp. Now if you follow through with your plan of re-raising you are giving away everything and might not get much more out of this hand. If you would have open raised he might have still raised you (I don't have reads here) and then you can come over the top for a much bigger pot.
hansihamburg: folds
jwb92969 joins the table at seat #8
VolkerRachow: folds
King Cashill: folds
kickboyswoop: raises $25.55 to $28.55 and is all-in
ADZ122: calls $25.55
Awesome.
*** FLOP *** [6d 8s Td]
*** TURN *** [6d 8s Td] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [6d 8s Td Ac] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kickboyswoop: shows [Kh Ks] (a pair of Kings)
ADZ122: shows [Ah Kc] (a pair of Aces)
ADZ122 collected $55 from pot
The turn sucked, but you can't get down on yourself for getting it all-in with the best hand. In the end that really is all you can do.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $57.85 | Rake $2.85
Board [6d 8s Td Ac 9h]
Seat 1: hansihamburg (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: VolkerRachow (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: King Cashill (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Stickitinguy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: kickboyswoop showed [Kh Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: Cid84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ADZ122 showed [Ah Kc] and won ($55) with a pair of Aces

PokerStars Game #18028977454: Tournament #91482886, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/06/09 - 18:14:03 (ET)
Table '91482886 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Kiz]v[et (2930 in chips)
Seat 2: sgermer (1395 in chips)
Seat 3: kickboyswoop (845 in chips)
Seat 4: dowork85 (3005 in chips)
Seat 6: spongebob111 (1475 in chips)
Seat 8: Tiago Pina (2510 in chips)
Seat 9: brandyballs (1340 in chips)
sgermer: posts small blind 25
kickboyswoop: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kickboyswoop [4h 5h]
dowork85: folds
spongebob111: folds
Tiago Pina: folds
brandyballs: folds
Kiz]v[et: folds
sgermer: raises 50 to 100
kickboyswoop: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [9h Kh Qh]
sgermer: checks
kickboyswoop: bets 745 and is all-in
sgermer: calls 745
*** TURN *** [9h Kh Qh] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [9h Kh Qh Kd] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sgermer: shows [9d Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Nines)
kickboyswoop: shows [4h 5h] (a flush, King high)
sgermer collected 1690 from pot
Once again, best hand and your opponent had to out draw you to beat you. You really can't get down on yourself when you put your money in wiht the best of it.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1690 | Rake 0
Board [9h Kh Qh Kd Jh]
Seat 1: Kiz]v[et (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sgermer (small blind) showed [9d Kc] and won (1690) with a full house, Kings full of Nines
Seat 3: kickboyswoop (big blind) showed [4h 5h] and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 4: dowork85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: spongebob111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Tiago Pina folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: brandyballs folded before Flop (didn't bet)

kickboy · June 10th, 2008, 10:14 AM

Like i said when I run bad I really Run bad.

PoWdA · June 10th, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickboy

Like i said when I run bad I really Run bad.

Gotta hate days like this.

Never_Race · June 16th, 2008, 09:16 AM

Hand #1:

First of all - why are you short-stacked? Buying in short, especially at these limits, is imo, -Ev.

I agree that I prefer opening here. If its a "wild room", I don't think you should automatically think limping waiting for a raise behind you is the right move. My definition of a wild table actually dictates that opening is much more favourable, because you have a realstic chance of being able to 4-bet your KK pre-flop (which is always good).

Unless you are limp-raising with a wider range than AA/KK (i.e suited connectors also) then its a crazily transparent move that will rarely come off unless you run into a big hand.

3-betting all-in again minimises your value imo. You were lucky to get a call this time, but I think by pushing you aren't getting called by the hands you want to be called by (99-JJ). Limp-calling in this situation is an option, imo. Otherwise, make it $12 or so and call his push or open-shove a non-A flop.

Hand #2:

I don't know that this is so straight forward considering how short you are. The problem with defending here, is that in order to make it +Ev, you have to be pushing a wide range of flops, not just when you flop a flush or straight etc. You probably have to get it in on some draws. I know its only a min-raise, but I think its a leak if you insta with a very wide range.

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