I was reading an article on Internet Poker from ESPN where some of the top online players discuss issues of online poker.

Sited- ESPN - Unenforceable rules in online poker - Poker

I was curious of your opinions.

1) Is sitting around a computer with a few friends fair compared to the "one player per hand rule"

2) How strictly should ghosting be enforced.
(Say your playing a tourny and in the middle of it you can not finish, you have a friend sign on under your name from their home and start to play for you)

__________________
Kickboyswoop

Great topic Kickboy... and a potentially emotive one too.

You hit on the enforcability aspect already, this is virtually impossible to track - especially when the 'play' is advised over MSN rather than switching computers (and thus IP addresses which can be tracked).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is prevalent at the mid to higher buy-in levels, with many excellent players ghosting their 'Horses' once they build up chips. While I personally believe that this is just plain cheating, it is so difficult to enforce that it is not worth losing any sleep over... what will be will be.

The lower levels are safer IMO - though it does not stop the occasional (and usually very badly executed) collusion from 'kids' in many games.

Where there is money then people will lie, cheat and deceive to get it. At the same time these 'cheats' rely on the fact that there is a 'decent' majority who stick to the rules - after all if everyone cheated there would be no games to play at all! But now we get on to Philosophy + game theory!

Cheers, Mark

I would definitely say it is unfair, and the group discussion would certainly be beneficial with regard to making key decisions. As Mark mentioned this is going to be next to impossible to enforce and monitor for. I'd say it approaches cheating but probably doesn't cross the line given the fact that other players basically have the same option. It comes down to one's own personal ethics and morals.

In my opinion, I would consider this cheating. You can't just roll into any live event, get knocked out, then take over for a friend, it shouldn't be any different for online tournaments. This is a little easier to monitor for by recording of IP addresses, etc. There have been some cases that sites have caught eventual winners doing this. I think the online sites are starting to do a better job of cross referencing and monitoring ip addresses, but this can get a little tricky. For example, what happens, if my computer or Internet connection crashes when I'm deep in a tourney? I decided to run over to my friends house to finish the tournament? How will the site differentiate the issues? Pretty murky water when your talking about big money.


I wouldn't be so sure of this to be honest. Although they would never openly admit it (for breach of privacy concerns) I know for a fact some online poker sites have "sniffers" looking around your computer for unauthorized programs, it wouldn't be hard at all for them to sniff open instant messenger programs and who they are chatting with, recording ip addresses, etc.

One time I was playing on party poker and I was reading a forum post about a rogue program, party poker immediately starting flashing a warning to "immediately shut down the application" or my session would be terminated. The only way they could know about the program is if they had a sniffer snooping around (in this case they were snooping at my internet explorer browsing). There is also a program called Poker Edge, which is basically like Poker Tracker or Poker Office, except the hand histories were shared among thousands of players. Several online poker sites banned their users from using this program, and at least two that I know of popped up the warning boxes.(meaning sniffers are running in the background.

I'd agree, there is almost nothing you can do about it, especially if they are talking over the phone it's going to be nearly impossible to monitor for.

Interesting topic, looking forward to hearing others opinions.

Jason

__________________
I'm Not Lucky, I Have Good Karma !

There isn't much they can do to prevent people from sitting around a computer and playing as a group. They are other ways groups can "cheat" online, but I won't get into that here to give anyone ideas.

Even stopping a players friend from signing on from another computer through IP tracking is hard to prevent because what if I play on more than one computer? or if I buy a new computer or move I'll have a new IP address right?

We'll just have to wait for the first poker room to implement webcam technology into the poker software so we can see the actual players playing.

__________________
~PokerDawg~
Poker Blog

There's a round table discussion about these topics over at the ESPN Poker page if anyone is interested.

http://http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=wise_gary&id=3329227

sjclar- I am not sure if you saw but i posted that link with the original post siting that.

__________________
Kickboyswoop

I don't think either are acceptable. I play all the time with people in the same room but never do I ask thier advice on a hand. Thier were a few times a few years ago when I would sit with my roomate and he would ask questions but he was brand new and it was for play money. Also I personally enjoy the compettion of the game as much as the money. It just wouldn't be the same if there were others playing my game for me.

Uh, yeah looks like I missed that. Sorry!

I believe there will always be those who look and find ways to bend the rules, or get around them. They are usually the ones who are morally and/or ethically bankrupt.

Group discussions of hands in real time is going to happen...would be VERY difficult to police in cyberspace...I think the majority of us are ethically upright and would refrain from engaging in this practice.

Ghosting should be considered as cheating and should not be allowed. As Karma said, this is a bit easier for the cyber cops to track since it would involve changes in IP addresses.

Just a rhetorical question, but do any of you see a correlation between the above ethical issues and the ethics of utilizing tracking software (SharkScope, Poker Tracker, etc.) to get an edge on your opponents?

__________________
ertrauma


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As my father always said, "Son, choose your sword wisely; Some day you may have to fall on it".

I do use sharkscope but mostly for self evaluation. I am not a big fan of the cyber stat keepers because from hand to hand it does not meen the player will be bluffing or sitting there with the stonecold nuts.

__________________
Kickboyswoop