Poker Forums

HuskyBlue · March 27th, 2009, 11:45 PM

It's great to hear that you've removed tilt from your SnG game BigFish. I think i'm even more pleased to hear you took a shot at some real money games (win or lose, but even better you did well!) instead of these penny tables.

I kind of view the micro stakes just like play money. There are so many bad players, many of whom don't care about "pocket change" so you encounter the issues you described. I think if i were playing them, i wouldn't care either and see every pot b/c I just don't value losing a buck or two.

But here's my main point about risking various % of your bankroll in games:
It sounds like many of you are grinding it out on the micro tables and slowly building a roll up to like 200 and that's great. But really, that money is just virtual cash. If you don't cash out on a regular basis, you could essentially leave it in there forever going up and down b/n 200 and 20 endlessly. So why not push yourself into some bigger games? If you lose a couple 10 dollar SnGs, so what? Go back to the .5/.10 and build it back up.

I am used to making a montly w/d for spending money and minor bills and i've basically counted into my monthly gross. I'm not so dependent on it though that if i run bad one month, i'm homeless, but I kinda do need to do well. This is why I have to adhere to much more strict bankroll management. I can't afford to have 50% of my stack on the line in any one game. But with you guys...go for it! Maybe not 50%, but if you're at 200...play a couple 10 dollar SnGs, sit at a NL25 ring game. If you lose, you lose. But you'll have learned something and you didn't need the money anyway...it's virtual cash!

I think many of you are much better than you think but are being suffocated by horrible players on the penny tables. I lamented to Ed the other day... As poker players, we base our actions on logical opponents. Play money players are not logical. Penny players are slightly more logical, $1/2 players are more logical and $2/5 more logical still... Take a shot at some higher tables and I think you'll find a better fit.

Ed Hill · March 28th, 2009, 01:20 AM

I agree 100% with Husky here. If you don't have any money and can't rebuy, you have to manage your bankroll. Otherwise, why not step up and play some real poker?

Just remember to take a real game to the table and don't just sit there trying to pedal the nuts and play weak tight.

How are you ever going to get experience playing for pennies? The minute you start playing above micro the entire game is going to be something that you are not accustomed to and all that practice will have done you next to no good.

Big Fish · March 28th, 2009, 05:47 AM

I'm glad that I have some support in my decision to play at the higher levels. Yeah, It's been a constant up and down, countless hours, and really nothing to physically show for it. All the books I've been reading, none of it (well quite a bit of it anyway) I couldn't really put to use because I was playing against illogical players hoping to get lucky or not caring much about it. It is time for me to move up to the next level and if I lose so be it. I'm tired of the micro stakes... spending 4 to 5 hours a day (sometimes much more than that) to only come out ahead a couple of dollars and then lose that after all the hard work to someone who calls my all in against my set of Aces with a flop of A 5 9 rainbow with 8 4 off only to catch runner runner for the wheel. I think it's seriously starting to make me go a little crazy. I missed out on a $200+ dollar pot at the $5/$10 because I folded 8 4 off. The flop came out 3 6 7 and the turn brought a 5. I wasn't mad because I would have had to call $20 just to see the flop and it was definitely the correct play to fold I think at least. It turns out I was up against AA, JJ and 66... what a flop for the guy with 66.

JediMethod · March 28th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Big Fish, you are in for a big surprise if you are having trouble beating the micros and you feel that moving up to higher stakes is the answer. A lot of people fall into this trap because they want to play 'real poker' where people respect a raise.

The higher you go, the more infested the games are with regular tight aggressive players that have a lot more experience than you who will not pay you off when you hit big. I am playing professionally at NL25 and the higher you go, the more pros you you will encounter.

I usually play 4k hands in a single session and I will typically endure at least a few massive suckouts like runner runner draws and crap. Any successful $5/$10 professional would love it if $25/$50 played the same way as $.05/.10 because that would mean they could now make 10x more money.

When players are loose and passive and call down with wide ranges you just need to adjust. Focus on value from your big hands. Don't bet into a total calling station with a weak hand that is unlikely to improve. Dont bluff. Bet for value. Learn to own the fish, because the fish are relatively the same as you move up to higher limits, theirs just few of them, and the reason for that is THEY GO BROKE SO FAST because the competition is that much tougher and those guys at higher stakes know how to value bet the snot outta the fish because they mastered that skill at the micros.

When you start playing .10/.25 you will see a lot more regular grinders who will respect your raises and you have to play them differently than you do the fish. When they start calling bets on the flop they are more likely to have something than the fish so you will need to excercise pot control more often.

I think I've played over 2million hands of poker in my career and I have seen some crazy crap. I have lost with quads to runner runner quads, I have lost with quads to a royal flush twice. I have had about a dozen royal flushes myself. I have had break even stretches that lasted more than 50k hands and I am a solid winner. You really need to learn to stop being results oriented. As long as you got your money in good then you made the right play. Just keep making those right plays and you'll get better and the results will reflect your skills given time. Drawing conclusions over small samples sizes such as 2k, 5k or even 10k hands is really pointless. Results in poker take far longer than that to converge. Just keep studying the game and reviewing hands that you've played.

MJPoker · April 10th, 2009, 09:40 PM

Taking a shot is ok, screw it - but if the money is making you nervous you won't be able to play well.

The best players play without regard for money, I personally don't waste any time or get stressed at a buy in loss when I keep 50 buyins in my roll.

If I take a 7 buyin downswing, I don't stress - I'm fine.

That's the key for me, it gives me my best chance at my "A" game.

chris jones · June 17th, 2009, 07:30 AM

If you intend to make money from playing poker, it is essential that you exercise good bankroll management skills. If you do not then you are setting yourself up for frequent losses that you will find hard to prevent, no matter how good you may be at poker.

JediMethod · June 17th, 2009, 08:38 AM

This thread tilts me so bad.

Zoe · June 22nd, 2009, 05:59 AM

I'm with you JM.

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